I don’t really understand the calls for people to sell the Teslas they already own. Those vehicles are already purchased and paid for (even loans and leases; the money paid on those does not go to Tesla, who has already been paid in full). To the extent that they are covered by warranty, they actually cost Tesla money the more they are driven. And those lucky people with free Supercharger access are costing Tesla even more.

Further, to sell a Tesla requires someone else to buy it; it doesn’t remove it from existence or use. Unless you’re suggesting that people scrap their vehicles, which seems incredibly irresponsible environmentally.

@avi

I recognize that these are deeply personal questions, but may I ask you some questions about your reasons on some of the aforementioned car brands?

@josh0

@avi I don’t disagree with your position at all, nor would I discourage anyone from selling their Tesla. If I owned one, I would definitely be disposing of it. My issue is with the way people seem to be framing it as a way to hurt Musk/Tesla. It simply isn’t that. Selling your Tesla only means that someone else will be driving it.

At best, if you sell it to a dealership, they’ll then flip it to a wholesaler, and it might just sit on a lot unsold somewhere, but especially as car prices are almost certainly about to spike, used cars are going to move quickly.

@josh0 got it. Makes sense.

IMO if we can cause used Tesla prices to crash, that would hurt Musk. It would make it harder for current Tesla owners to trade in a used Tesla for a new one, and it would make people less likely to buy a new Tesla due to the threat of depreciation and/or social stigma. Tesla also maintains an inventory of used cars at all times, and if those assets lose value, the company takes a loss. These things can all compound; Tesla’s inflated stock price is based on Musk’s ridiculous claims of 100% growth forever; a few quarters of low or no growth could crash the stock price. Which would be, IMO, a good thing.

@avi this is true. Depressing the price of used Teslas would be good, but if/when those tariffs actually materialize, the prices of all used cars is going to skyrocket like it did from the supply chain issues during Covid. It would not surprise me in the slightest if Musk is actually specifically planning for this; he’s in a fantastic position to manipulate the market for his own benefit.

I’ve noticed a number of people talking about donating their Teslas, and—where financially feasible—this actually seems like a great option. Especially if they’re donated to charities that will then use them, ideally with prominent branding for their causes.

I’m picturing a fleet of pink Teslas with the T logo replaced with an IUD that serve as free shuttles to/from Planned Parenthood locations. Obviously, this would actually be a very bad idea that will never happen, but it makes me smile. And actually bog-standard Teslas used for the purpose might actually work really well as camouflage.

@josh0 OMG I love that image

@avi it’s just so perfect! 😆

@serge @josh0 Sure. In a nutshell it’s that I perceive that each of them was either closely associated with Hitler and/or used Jewish slaves.

I’m not an expert on this but that’s what it boils down to.

I’m always open to learning more and even learning that I was mistaken about something. Even this. But that’s my current understanding.

@avi

I have complex feelings on this (a Jew with complex and conflicting feelings on a topic- what are the odds?!).

Let's take these companies involvement with the Holocaust as a given- at least for this discussion.

Here's where things get tricky for me. That was a long time ago. The people involved with those actions are long gone.

Moreover I think about my two grandfathers, my American grandfather, and my French grandfather.

My American grandfather fought in WW2. He served in Japan, and for the rest of his life refused to buy a Japanese car.

My French grandfather was born and raised in Poland. He was thrown into a ghetto then 5 concentration camps, from age 14-19. The Nazis killed his entire family and stole their land.

He was liberated and he moved to France.

He owned BMWs. I don't think he did it as an act of "forgiveness", nor forgetting- no one could forget the tortures he endured- but because he saw it otherwise depriving himself.

Any thoughts?

@josh0

@serge @josh0

That all makes a ton of sense. I’m sympathetic to all of that and have not the slightest bit of disdain for any Jew who sees things differently than me, who drives BMWs or whatever.

To attempt to clarify: I have no resentment or disdain for the people who own them or work for those companies today. I think they have done nothing wrong.

It’s more about the brands and their histories.

Personally, knowing that Hitler personally founded VW makes it just impossible for me personally to own a VW. Just completely impossible.

I owned a Mini a few years ago and had no problem with that, even though the profits went to BMW, as a Mini is actually just a BMW with a different badge. In fact it’s the badge itself that’s the real problem for me. It’s literally the name and the logo.

See, people eventually die. And even if their descendents have the same surname, hell, that’s not their fault. Humans are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors.

Companies, however, are entities that have no specific lifespan. They have a persistent identity. The BMW that exists today is the same entity that used Jewish slave labor. And no matter how much they have disavowed their past, or apologized, or tried to make amends, that’s not enough for me.

For me, the only step that would suffice would be for them to change their names and their logos. To disavow their heritage. To state that their history and their brand is indelibly tainted with their past actions, and the only way to move forward with a clean slate is to dissasociate themselves from their prior incarnations.

I have no illusions; that’s not going to happen. I accept that. This is just how I personally think about it.